Random Ramblings

Steel Magnolias - Currently

5/27/2015

I’m sure that I will not be that popular with the ladies for today’s post. I’m okay with that, as I’ve never been popular, so that’s something I’m incredibly comfortable with.

I ran across a post today on FB that firmly stated, “Men are weak, they’ll destroy a female beyond their breaking point and she’ll still be willing to fix it and hold you down. But once you hurt a man they give up entirely, men can’t handle pain like a woman.”

“...watch the movie, Steel Magnolias, this is precisely what that movie is about.”
- K. J Jones

Initially, I only “liked” the picture and moved on with my day. Quietly, meditating that led into contemplating what my day would look like. After rubbing my pained sacrum (I must get bodywork done as my back and hands are not at it’s peak.), I mindlessly picked up my phone and there were notifications and messages awaiting me.

I’d received a notification that someone commented on the picture that I’d liked earlier. The first comment came from a gentleman that poignantly and minimally responded with, “False” the next comment came from a woman that believes, “This goes both ways”.

“In my line of work, men break quickly, and can’t tolerate the amount of pain that all of my clients that are women can.” -K. J Jones

I’ve encountered many people in one of my lines of work and in my due diligence and research, I’ve learned that men’s pain tolerance is far lower than my women clientele. I, often share this with women during our sessions, for the sake of empowering them. Now, this post isn’t in any way some, man-bashing rant, as I believe men serve an incredible purpose and their strengths lies in other arenas. It does make sense to me though, that women can tolerate more pain, as we’re the ones that give birth and most (not all) men don’t posses the sea legs it takes, to go into the deep and oftentimes, turbulent waters of child-birth with us.

For many years, men have been revered for their sexuality, braun (one could certainly attach a high-pain tolerance to braun--I see that connection as I write this), intelligence and problem solving skills. But, I’ve never known a part of history that boasted, touted nor bled the pages of history books about men’s incredible, emotional depth; if I’m incorrect, please point me in the right direction.

"What is this incessant belief that we should do everything that men do?" - snippet of Healthy, Independence

My belief is, the more that we got away from finding strength in being emotional and nurturing and ultimately, loving; and the more we immersed ourselves in “success” our goals and fighting to become “equal” to men, the more things spiraled out of control. Hence, current day chaos and madness.

Science has long proven that our brains can only FOCUS on one thing at a time, which starkly negates the corporate world of “multi-tasking”. If women (lots - most) are focused on becoming a success and expanding upon their successes, something(s) major definitely goes undernourished and imbalanced. There’s an old saying that I’ll paraphrase, “If there’s a woman at the top of her game in the workplace, her house is a mess.” Another one goes something like, “show me an ambitious person and I’ll show you an early grave.” Usually, a women’s household falls apart while she’s on her ambitious trek to success and “just one more accolade”.

A while back, I spoke to a wildly successful, grown-ass woman that was also enlightened and nurturing and firm and her own boss and loving and a ball-buster. One of the things she left me with, that I shall never forget is, that intoxicating elixir that she, with great awareness allowed to escape her lips; like osmosis, she transferred a resonating serum into me by saying, “A woman can have everything she wants in her lifetime. She just can’t have it all at the same time.”

I’ve learned this to be true. Especially, if you want to focus on doing an amazing job at whatever it is your heart and emotional depth has moved you to do.

P.s. your feedback is certainly encouraged here.

Namaste

6 Comments

Wade Padgett

5/27/2015 08:44:57 am

I think that you’re mostly correct in your response to your interlocutor… with just a few peripheral exceptions.

When I was in grad school, one of my research projects (literature review) just happened to be on pain tolerance. It’s really easy to base conclusions on a narrow range of experience… especially if that experience is our own. As it happens, men have a slightly higher tolerance for pain than women.

Yes, when this comes up when women are a part of the conversation, the stock response is a question: “Have YOU ever had a child?” Obviously, the question is rhetorical and ignores the fact that many women opt for drugs when delivering their children. It also ignores the fact that they don’t have a choice in the matter once a pregnancy comes to term.

In any case, my stock response is, “No, I’ve never delivered a child. Have you ever been shot in the dick with a large caliber handgun? Shot anywhere?” This tends to bring the issue into a slightly less snotty perspective. (And yes, I have been shot in the dick with a large caliber handgun. As you might guess, it hurts like a mother-f***er; a searing, ongoing pain that was accompanied by shock in the 35 minute ambulance ride to the hospital. Fortunately, I’m lucky and everything works fine for the most part… a small occasional pain that has more to do with the massive muscular damage that accompanied the bullet exiting my gluteal muscles. Anyway…)

Keisha, you’d said: “I’ve encountered many people in one of my lines of work and in my due diligence and research, I’ve learned that men’s pain tolerance is far lower than my women clientele. I, often share this with women during our sessions, for the sake of empowering them.”

And how would you have rated my recent tolerance and by what standard? Would that empowerment that you give to women – possibly – also manifest in the form of a heightened will to tolerate pain? As with many things, both men and women buy into or invest in image. For men it’s strength (Not the same as a tolerance for pain. If it were, women would be lugging their own heavy shit around and not recruiting us for the job. I’ve worked in construction and know men who’ve done it for most of their lives. It almost invariably breaks them physically in some way if they stay with it into retirement. I can attest to some of the destructive effects – not merely in the form of danger – but in the damage incurred over time from nothing more than the physical stresses. My job in my first military service was set largely outdoors and extremely physically demanding. Women dropped out of it left and right. Those who stayed, I respected a great deal. It’s as much – or more for women – an act of will as anything. Those few who stuck to the job I did were greatly admired and appreciated. They were not hulking monsters, but small, slim determined women who bore up marvelously under a great deal of day-to-day physical stress (exertion, heat, cold, rain, snow, ice, a completely unreasonable pace, etc.)

What men and women do in relationships is another matter. My professional specialty is cognitive and social psychology. It’s a well-established fact that has nothing to do with “weakness” or a tolerance for pain that men are, as a group, rigid about rules and fairness and if those are violated (by their individual estimations) , they are FAR more likely than women to abandon the game, the work, the relationship, etc. than women. Women will TEND (These are averages, not invariant traits.) to go so far as to change the rules in order to keep the game or relationship going. Strength and enduring pain are irrelevant. These are basic general differences.

This has more than a hint of bitterness and I’m not sure it can be trusted to represent anything factual: “Men are weak, they’ll destroy a female beyond their breaking point and she’ll still be willing to fix it and hold you down. But once you hurt a man they give up entirely, men can’t handle pain like a woman.”

I don’t like being in relationships in which a woman is inclined to dish out emotional pain. Why would I? And if a woman is “destroy[ed]… beyond [her] breaking point,” isn’t she broken and done? What is the point of “fixing” something like that FOR someone who would do that? And the “hold you down” thing I just don’t get.

I’m not a Mars-Venus guy. That’s pop psychology nonsense. However, we do have essential differences that can be held without bitterness.

Keisha, you said: “For many years, men have been revered for their sexuality, braun (one could certainly attach a high-pain tolerance to braun--I see that connection as I write this), intelligence and problem solving skills. But, I’ve neve

Hunny Goddess link

5/27/2015 10:31:28 am

I, truly appreciate your feedback and perspective. I agree the meme that I ran across this morning oozed bitterness, however I'm connected enough to get the jest of what the young lady was implying and grasp the message. And, I built upon it.

I do eventually share with women my findings, not initially, but ultimately. I don't lead with that information, specifically to not plant seeds, and to simply gather data. My work with both sexes is incredibly intimate and without effort or trying, I've picked up the patterns and pain tolerances of men and women (the rule and not the exception), as I'm cognitive enough to see with clarity and retain the info. In my findings, men are far quicker to bow out, want pressure reduced, whine, yelp, become uncomfortable, sweat profusely, need a break, water, or far more distractions during sessions.

Touching on giving birth...it appears that it was discredited the very, many women that do not accept drugs and earlier times when drugs were not even an option. I gave birth with no drugs, as I opted out. My grandmother gave birth to 7, single birthed children without an option of drugs. I, recently watched a documentary of woman in the Congo that gave birth to a whooping 20lb baby, with no drugs either. I, stated all of that to simply say, yes a gun shot wound could definitely be compared to child birth, but I do want to point out that men were not built to be shot daily nor is it natural. We were built for this, as women have far more babies around the world, than men are shot daily (my quick guesstimation, I will check stats for accuracy purposes) as it was intended for you all to bear as many bullet holes as we do children.

I'm ny field work, I've bore witness to the lesser pain tolerance/threshold of males than females and I must say, initially I was incredibly surprised. But, men have made me a believer of this.

Hunny Goddess

5/27/2015 10:33:21 am

*not intended

Wade Padgett

5/27/2015 12:32:46 pm

I definitely respect your experience, Keisha. However, the data in the research are also empirically valid. While it is true that men were not made to be shot daily, it is also true that women were not meant to give birth daily. Neither is a “one-off” event in the sense that people use that term to marginalize (Not suggesting you did.). Depending on the circumstances, each can be horrendously invasive in terms of the immediacy of their effects, to say nothing of the medical risk. They don’t just ask for our attention, they tear it away from everything except those narrow experiences themselves.

My own experience in harsh physical labor and the analogous withdrawal of women from it is part of my own experience. I think that it is entirely possible that we push limits in different arenas; men in terms of pushing actively into and beyond certain limits and women in terms of bearing up, as you point out. (Ken Wilber talks about this in terms of “Eros” and “Agape.”). That’s just speculation, of course. There is the additional fact that, on the whole, women have actively avoided the most punishing and dangerous day to day labor in terms of the extremes – construction, for instance, as I’ve pointed out (Yes, I’m aware of the daily grind of female gatherers in indigenous populations.).

Naturally, there was a time when anesthesia was not a choice. Childbirth is painful – period; one of the most painful experiences that a person can undergo, though I’d venture a guess not THE most painful. Interestingly, though there are psychiatric issues that can accompany childbirth, PTSD doesn’t tend to be one of them.

Strength, endurance and tolerance are a point of pride for both sexes and it often seems to be a zero-sum game; one cannot be exceptional at one without the other being inferior. I think this takes away from both. The most important part of bearing a child – and, as a mother, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong – isn’t the mark of agony, it’s the ongoing care and nurturing of children; growing their trust and love. This is one area in which men often have a distinct shortcoming.

I think that this was a mistake, at least in terms of the mixing claims with regard to tolerances to emotional and physical pain: “Men are weak, they’ll destroy a female beyond their breaking point and she’ll still be willing to fix it and hold you down. But once you hurt a man they give up entirely, men can’t handle pain like a woman.”

I’ve already noted what I think is wrong with this statement, but I’ll expand on that. It’s an oversimplification (And it was HERE that I’d pointed out the bitterness.) to mix tolerances up for emotional and physical pain; worse still to equate either with “strength.”

There is more, of course, that this barely covers over; trust and integrity in relationships. That woman’s statement reeks of distrust and resentment. Some of mine would too. But another time…

Have a good night, beautiful person. I’ll look forward to talking to you soon.

Hunny Goddess

5/28/2015 02:02:51 am

In this case, I'm going to respectfully, agree to disagree. 😊

Wade Padgett

5/28/2015 02:14:19 am

I'm not sure which part you're disagreeing with, but fair enough 8-).

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